(no subject)
Sep. 28th, 2010 09:00 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
On Sunday, two young women came to our front door. I knew they were missionary types as soon as I saw them, but I always strive to be polite to proselyters because that's how I hope others will treat LDS missionaries.
I opened the door and listened while they introduced themselves. It turns out the premise of their message and church is the existence of a Heavenly Mother. When I told them I already hold that belief, they said, "You've found scriptural proof for that in the Bible?" As if to challenge me for agreeing with them. The stumper was that at that moment, I had no idea where the doctrinal background lies for the LDS belief in a Heavenly Mother. The only thing I could think of off the top of my head was a hymn that we sing on a regular basis:
In the heavens are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare.
Truth is reason: truth eternal
tells me I've a mother there.
I didn't share it with them, though. I just assured them that I shared their belief. They invited me to their church, gave me a card and went on their merry way. I wonder how much opposition they experience because of this belief? Chris and I got to talking about it last night and before I knew it he was researching all sorts of early LDS doctrine, wanting to have a deep conversation about it well past midnight (I pretty much shut down at midnight on the dot. I get grouchy about being kept awake.)
But he did pose an interesting question, in thinking about the church's stance on evolution. Many LDS scholars feel that the gist lies in the answer to this question: Was death present on the earth before the Fall of Adam?
Opinions?
I opened the door and listened while they introduced themselves. It turns out the premise of their message and church is the existence of a Heavenly Mother. When I told them I already hold that belief, they said, "You've found scriptural proof for that in the Bible?" As if to challenge me for agreeing with them. The stumper was that at that moment, I had no idea where the doctrinal background lies for the LDS belief in a Heavenly Mother. The only thing I could think of off the top of my head was a hymn that we sing on a regular basis:
In the heavens are parents single?
No, the thought makes reason stare.
Truth is reason: truth eternal
tells me I've a mother there.
I didn't share it with them, though. I just assured them that I shared their belief. They invited me to their church, gave me a card and went on their merry way. I wonder how much opposition they experience because of this belief? Chris and I got to talking about it last night and before I knew it he was researching all sorts of early LDS doctrine, wanting to have a deep conversation about it well past midnight (I pretty much shut down at midnight on the dot. I get grouchy about being kept awake.)
But he did pose an interesting question, in thinking about the church's stance on evolution. Many LDS scholars feel that the gist lies in the answer to this question: Was death present on the earth before the Fall of Adam?
Opinions?
no subject
Date: 2010-09-28 04:14 pm (UTC)I don't know. If we only look at Creationism, I'd have to say no. But if we look at Evolution then yes.
It's strange. I don't often think about Adam and Eve as being part of my belief system. Let me try this again: I more or less understand Adam and Eve's particular story (not the Creation story) to be a morality lesson. Listen to God. But as a whole story, Creationism, just doesn't fit for me.
I believe there is a mash up of Creationism and Evolution but that being a human I will never understand the complete picture. I'm okay with that. I believe God created the earth and the universe and the galaxies, etc., but I'm not sure about the primordial ooze. But why not?
I figure when I die I'll either learn about the mysteries of the world or I won't care because I'll be in the presence of God and that kind of thing won't matter any more.
This should be interesting - I hope other people respond. I'd like to read what they think.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-29 03:12 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-28 05:07 pm (UTC)The Gap Theory is that there is an undetermined amount of time between Gen. 1:1 and 1:2, and that the account in Genesis 1 is actually a re-Creation after the end of a previous era. There is some implicit support for this theory elsewhere in the Bible, and if I understand its proponents correctly, the earth prior to Genesis 1:2 was home to the angels. This theory seems also to support the fossil record better than a Young Earth Creationism theory.
The older I get, and the more I read, the more I tend to think that the Gap Theory has validity. It doesn't make much difference to my faith - I still believe that God created the heavens and the earth, and that HOW He did so is more or less irrelevant - but it also would leave room for death prior to Adam's Fall.
I would be interested to know what LDS doctrine does say about a Heavenly Mother, so if it's something you can share, please do so. :-)
no subject
Date: 2010-09-29 03:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-29 12:41 pm (UTC)That's exactly how I feel. The How isn't as important to me as it is that He did.
I've never heard of the Gap Theory, it sounds really cool. I know that there are some really orthodox sects of the multitudes of Christian faith that believe that those seven days in Genesis really meant 7 days and that there were no dinosaurs. I just can't believe that. I think our earth has has tremendous changes and all kinds of creatures have walked this planet all created by God.
no subject
Date: 2010-09-29 02:40 pm (UTC)They're famous for preserving a site where human footprints are found inside dinosaur footprints, which completely contradicts the idea that dinos died out millenia before humans arrived.
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Date: 2010-09-29 03:15 pm (UTC)This is some really cool stuff! I love that there is a combination of science and faith and not a separation of the two, an us against them kind of thing.
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Date: 2010-09-29 03:20 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-29 03:27 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-29 12:02 am (UTC)The "Further reading" section of this leads to all sorts of interesting stuff: http://en.fairmormon.org/Mormonism_and_science/Death_before_the_Fall
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Date: 2010-09-29 03:10 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-09-29 12:44 pm (UTC)Oh it's too early this morning for this in depth, but very, very cool, discussion.